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cliff discussions by folding the debt ceiling into fiscal cliff talks. take a listen. >> obama: congress, in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation which by the way we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. >> jennifer: fortunately for us "newsweek" "daily beast" special correspondent michael tomasky is always up for playing political games himself. he's joining us from washington d.c. thanks for coming back inside "the war room." >> it is always my pleasure, governor. >> jennifer: always a pleasure to have you. so let me talk about this debt ceiling issue. because really, as we look at it really, the only leverage that republicans have on the fiscal cliff talks they proceed to be with the debt limit right? so today the treasury department ups the ante by endorsing republican senator mitch mcconnell's summer 2011 provision which, you know, he suggested and it effectively lets the president rai
cliff discussions by folding the debt ceiling into fiscal cliff talks. take a listen. >> obama: congress, in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation which by the way we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. >> jennifer: fortunately for us "newsweek" "daily beast" special correspondent michael tomasky...
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debt deal negotiations have stalled. >> the fiscal cliff stalemate remains. >> the standoff continues. there isn't a lot of reason for hope. >> democrats and republicans are blaming each other for the stalled negotiations. >> who's going to blink sglirs what's going to blink first. >> the white house is daring republicans literally to blink. (laughter) >> stephen: obama is daring republicans literally to blink. well, the joke's on him! (laughter) because i know some republicans who had their eyelids surgically removed. (laughter) (cheers and applause) now obama won't budge off his calls for $1.6 trillion in new tax revenue over the coming decade, mostly from increasing tax rates and taxes on upper-bracket earners. folks, that's just punishing our nation's job creators. america's billionaires are the engine that drives our economy through smart investments! and occasionally through dumb ones. (laughter) today house speaker john boehner struck back with his plan to cut spending by demanding obama come up with boehner's plan to cut spending. (laughter) >> a lot of people know that the pr
debt deal negotiations have stalled. >> the fiscal cliff stalemate remains. >> the standoff continues. there isn't a lot of reason for hope. >> democrats and republicans are blaming each other for the stalled negotiations. >> who's going to blink sglirs what's going to blink first. >> the white house is daring republicans literally to blink. (laughter) >> stephen: obama is daring republicans literally to blink. well, the joke's on him! (laughter) because i...
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. >> an added wrinkle to the fiscal cliff talks is the debt ceiling, with the government on pace to reach its borrowing limit early next year. the white house stated its position on the 14th amendment, which some theory rise is a way for the president to raise the debt limit independently, should republicans attempt to use it as a negotiating tool. >> i can say that this administration does not believe that the 14th amendment gives the president the power to ignore the debt ceiling, period. >> the fiscal cliff talks reached a new low yesterday when, somehow, the new york jets got dragged into it on the senate floor. >> it's not one of my favorite teams, but it's really, really fun to watch, and that's the new york jets. coach ryan, he's got a problem. he has three quarterbacks, sanchez, he's got tim tebow, he's got another guy. he can't decide who their quarterback is going to be. that's the same problem republicans are having. romney's gone, but he's still in the background. we have mcconnell and we have boehner. who is the quarterback, mr. president? who is the quarterback? >> there's s
. >> an added wrinkle to the fiscal cliff talks is the debt ceiling, with the government on pace to reach its borrowing limit early next year. the white house stated its position on the 14th amendment, which some theory rise is a way for the president to raise the debt limit independently, should republicans attempt to use it as a negotiating tool. >> i can say that this administration does not believe that the 14th amendment gives the president the power to ignore the debt ceiling,...
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cliff and cut the national debt. the 81-year-old simpson went "gangnam style" to make his point. ♪ >> i have a bum knee. horse, horse. ride the horse. >> senator, thank you for that. and that's your morning dish of "scrambled politics." and now for a look at your national weather, let's turn to bill karins. he has your weather channel forecast. >> the best part is the underwater robot for a place that doesn't have water. >> maybe it's a pool. >> yes. >> and they need to inspect it. >> counter-terrorism measures in the backyard. you never know. good morning, everyone. getting out the door this morning, it's very cold up in new england. tell you what, the lack of snow is really becoming a slightly alarming especially if you have any interest in snowy weather recreation or skiing or ice skating or maybe you like to go snowmobiling. the northern half of the country is sparse. 7% of the country has snow cover. most of that is the high elevations in the rockies and northern rockies. it's about as low as it gets. last yea
cliff and cut the national debt. the 81-year-old simpson went "gangnam style" to make his point. ♪ >> i have a bum knee. horse, horse. ride the horse. >> senator, thank you for that. and that's your morning dish of "scrambled politics." and now for a look at your national weather, let's turn to bill karins. he has your weather channel forecast. >> the best part is the underwater robot for a place that doesn't have water. >> maybe it's a pool....
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this fiscal cliff is the direct result of the last fiscal cliff when we had the debt limit showdown. >>neil: both sides agreed. >>guest: i voted again i. why create the artificial crisis as a way to force action? it never works. >>neil: bethis. they did. >>guest: and now they are going to do it again. they are saying, now, hurt growth in america, cut a deal that hurts growth in america so in a year from now we will have a worst fiscal cliff and that is the real fiscal cliff $16 trillion debt which the tax you have 200,000 less jobsve next year and the people voting for that will be responsible and held accountable for the public policy. >>neil: you have been talking about freeing out to the middle-class. for and reason in the last election republicans lost the middle class. they seemed to get stereotypes as the party that appeals only to the well-to-do. what i am asking you, how do you change that? the perception sticks in the eyes of some. >>guest: first of all, we need to understand the middle class makes us different and exceptional. every didn't has rich people but what makes us
this fiscal cliff is the direct result of the last fiscal cliff when we had the debt limit showdown. >>neil: both sides agreed. >>guest: i voted again i. why create the artificial crisis as a way to force action? it never works. >>neil: bethis. they did. >>guest: and now they are going to do it again. they are saying, now, hurt growth in america, cut a deal that hurts growth in america so in a year from now we will have a worst fiscal cliff and that is the real fiscal...
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having an agreement to avoid the debt, the fiscal cliff, and then having a down payment on actually getting the $4 trillion identified. >> howard dean is a deficit hawk. liberal, but he is a deficit hawk. he doesn't say maybe if we can't get a deal together, maybe we'd be okay with the fiscal cliff. he says that is the best deal for everyone, the best deal for progressives, just to do it. to go back to the clinton era rates. you get rid of three quarters of the deficit just on tax increases at that point. >> and he says you get defense cuts. >> you can't get defense cuts any other way. and he's not the only one. there's a lot of people on the left and there's quite a few people on the right. i'm glad you're optimistic and a lot of ceos and guys in your position -- if you run a company, you don't need consumers petrified and business people petrified. this is the last thing we need if you run a company. i understand you have a horse in the game. >> but you also have the double trigger. if you go over the cliff, we've got the debt ceiling fight right afterwards. it's not like that's six month
having an agreement to avoid the debt, the fiscal cliff, and then having a down payment on actually getting the $4 trillion identified. >> howard dean is a deficit hawk. liberal, but he is a deficit hawk. he doesn't say maybe if we can't get a deal together, maybe we'd be okay with the fiscal cliff. he says that is the best deal for everyone, the best deal for progressives, just to do it. to go back to the clinton era rates. you get rid of three quarters of the deficit just on tax...
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but limiting or even charitable deductions could be part of a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. one man of the tax policy center says given our national debt? sort of tax hikes are inevitable. >> one way is to tax the same income we have right now but get more revenue. the alternative is to tax more. get rid of the deductions and the exemptions, the things that reduce or taxable income. we tax more at today's rates and we bring in more revenue. >> reporter: itemized deductions are the first form of tax breaks on the table. used by 30% of tax payers they cost the government over $200 billion a year. about a fifth of this year's deficit. charitable donations alone cost $40 billion a year. but ending them is costly too. >> anybody who gives money away, taxes will go up. they'll pay more. that's what we're all about trying to get rid of these. but at the same time they'll likely give less to charity. if i don't get the deduction, it's going to cost me more after taxes to give away money. >> reporter: and say nonprofit leaders, if the rich stop giving, the poor stop getting. >> we're
but limiting or even charitable deductions could be part of a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. one man of the tax policy center says given our national debt? sort of tax hikes are inevitable. >> one way is to tax the same income we have right now but get more revenue. the alternative is to tax more. get rid of the deductions and the exemptions, the things that reduce or taxable income. we tax more at today's rates and we bring in more revenue. >> reporter: itemized deductions are the...
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since we had another fiscal cliff type scenario with the debt limit that credited the scenario that led to this, and this idea i voted against that, put bad things to happen at one time because that will force washington to do something. well, surprise, it didn't work. here we are, again, facing this. we have two issues to face. number one is in the immediate term avoid doing damage, and avoid doing harm, and so we need to look for a way to accomplish that in the short term. we have to, we have to, we have to have a conversation about getting the fiscal house in order. i heard bob talk about that. it's fundamentally true. spending a trillion dollars a year more than we take in. that's a fact. address it. i approach the issue with a following belief that the only way to get that in order is through rapid economic growth. there's no taxes you can raise to bring this debt down. what the president's proposing does not raise the revenue to make a significant dent on the debt, but it will make a didn't on job creation, particularly middle class job creation, and that's why i oppose the plan.
since we had another fiscal cliff type scenario with the debt limit that credited the scenario that led to this, and this idea i voted against that, put bad things to happen at one time because that will force washington to do something. well, surprise, it didn't work. here we are, again, facing this. we have two issues to face. number one is in the immediate term avoid doing damage, and avoid doing harm, and so we need to look for a way to accomplish that in the short term. we have to, we have...
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this fiscal cliff and particularly raise the debt ceiling and avoid economic disaster. >> if that's the only particular issue to confront us next year if it is not wrapped up in this one negotiation as it should be. later in the show, we'll talk to chris van hollen, your colleague about a motion to dismiss possibility that would circumvent john boehner's extrasty to keep this bill off the floor. we will see about that. look, will rogers famously said i'm not a member of on organized party, i'm a democratic. you seem to tame the beat. under your leadership, the party has been unified. you had remarkable gains in the senate. how did you do it? >> this is a team effort. in fact, you took the words right out of my mouth from the d.n.c. meetings. i quoted will rogers in celebrating our victory because i think that will rogers would be surprised and proud that the party that he knew not to be organized was very well organized, had a ground game that was well coordinated that, you know, the tens of thousands of doors we knocked on, really hundreds of thousands of doors the phone calls the
this fiscal cliff and particularly raise the debt ceiling and avoid economic disaster. >> if that's the only particular issue to confront us next year if it is not wrapped up in this one negotiation as it should be. later in the show, we'll talk to chris van hollen, your colleague about a motion to dismiss possibility that would circumvent john boehner's extrasty to keep this bill off the floor. we will see about that. look, will rogers famously said i'm not a member of on organized...
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plus, we'll talk fiscal cliff and debt ceiling with him. plus, one hatch of simpson-bowles. the erskine bowles half. the less dancing of the duo. why former chief of staff is growing more optimistic we'll be able to get a deal before the cliff dive. by the way, will he take a job in president obama's cabinet? i'll have that answer straight ahead. first, a look ahead at the president's schedule today. you can see it's michigan with the lunch time remarks. back to the white house before 5:00. [ male announcer ] when ziggy the cat appeared at their door, he opened up jake's very private world. at first, jake's family thought they saved ziggy, but his connection with jake has been a lifesaver. for a love this strong, his family only feeds him iams. compared to other leading brands, it has 50% more animal protein... ...to help keep ziggy's body as strong as a love that reaches further than anyone's words. iams. keep love strong. ♪ don't know what i'd do ♪ i'd have nothing to prove ♪ i'd have nothing to lose [ male announcer ] zales is the diamond store. take up to an extra
plus, we'll talk fiscal cliff and debt ceiling with him. plus, one hatch of simpson-bowles. the erskine bowles half. the less dancing of the duo. why former chief of staff is growing more optimistic we'll be able to get a deal before the cliff dive. by the way, will he take a job in president obama's cabinet? i'll have that answer straight ahead. first, a look ahead at the president's schedule today. you can see it's michigan with the lunch time remarks. back to the white house before 5:00. [...
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cliff budget negotiations to future increases in the nation's debt ceiling. "the new york times" reported republicans might accept higher tax rates on wealthier americans to avoid triggering tax hikes for everyone. in return, they'd demand greater spending cuts next year before raising the federal borrowing limit. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation, which, by the way, we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game because we've got to... we've got to break that habit before it starts. >> reporter: the 2011 standoff between the president and republicans led the nation to the brink of national default. standard and poor's even lowered its rating on u.s. government bonds. now, the president has proposed he be given authority to raise the debt ceiling without congressional action. house republicans reject that idea. and they've called for raising revenue without rate hikes, plus major s
cliff budget negotiations to future increases in the nation's debt ceiling. "the new york times" reported republicans might accept higher tax rates on wealthier americans to avoid triggering tax hikes for everyone. in return, they'd demand greater spending cuts next year before raising the federal borrowing limit. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget...
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do you believe the analysis of the fiscal cliff impact was too rosy? >> projections are very difficult. it's very difficult to take into account the effect on confidence. as i said, consumers have been confident. they've maintained that confidence. but look at what happened during the debt limit debacle a year ago august. look at how the economy came to a grinding halt at that point. >> and that's your fear that the cliff could just freeze consume earp confidence and that's something you can't right now project as an economist? >> no one wants to go over the fiscal cliff. worse would be for the president to sign a bad bill. >> all right. alan krueger, chairman of the president's counscil on economi advisers. mr. krueger, nice to see you that month. i'll see you next month, i promise. >> thank you, chuck. >>> trivia time, jim demint's decision to step down 0 means south carolina will have two seats on the ballot in 2014. who was elected the last time both of south carolina's senate seats were on the ballot in the same election? strom thurmond, of course
do you believe the analysis of the fiscal cliff impact was too rosy? >> projections are very difficult. it's very difficult to take into account the effect on confidence. as i said, consumers have been confident. they've maintained that confidence. but look at what happened during the debt limit debacle a year ago august. look at how the economy came to a grinding halt at that point. >> and that's your fear that the cliff could just freeze consume earp confidence and that's...
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i don't think this fiscal cliff talks will resolve anything. nothing. charles: the whole thing, though, a lot of conservatives are saying boehner may not be that far away from obama in ideology. in other words, he's purged the tea party within the ranks of the leadership within the g.o.p. and seems to be willing to go down the same path as the president. >> i'm not sure i believe that. i think boehner's heart is in the right place, but he's caught up. it's his role to sort of grind out a deal with the president, rather than speak for the party. noww you know, stuart, in the british system, someone will stand on the floor of the house of commons in the opposition and give a major statement of the party's position in any given fight. i don't see why it should not be possible to designate somebody like paul ryan or eric cantor or even marco rubio to stand down in washington and give a major presentation. charles: if they give the presentation and the lead ser doing something different -- and the leader is doing something different, isn't that a mixed messa
i don't think this fiscal cliff talks will resolve anything. nothing. charles: the whole thing, though, a lot of conservatives are saying boehner may not be that far away from obama in ideology. in other words, he's purged the tea party within the ranks of the leadership within the g.o.p. and seems to be willing to go down the same path as the president. >> i'm not sure i believe that. i think boehner's heart is in the right place, but he's caught up. it's his role to sort of grind out a...
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cliff. that's the big challenger. we've only seen 10 or 12 republicans in congress say i'm willing to raise taxes. until that number gets higher this is going to be a big process. >> susan, what about the president's leverage? do you think he continues in the position he's in to carry the leverage that he needs to get this deal done as the time clicks out? >> clearly, he's got leverage. but his leverage is only going to go so far. i know from talking to folks on capitol hill, there is a real willingness on the part of republicans in the house, more than a dozen. i'm talking a majority who would raise tax revenue. they're willing to do it. they're willing to go outside the comfort zone and do that, but only if they see democrats step forward on the cut side. and we haven't seen that yet. even the most moderate of republican, even the ones who are retiring say they're not willing to go for any kind of tax revenue until they see bigger cuts. this whole argument that it's republicans versus repu
cliff. that's the big challenger. we've only seen 10 or 12 republicans in congress say i'm willing to raise taxes. until that number gets higher this is going to be a big process. >> susan, what about the president's leverage? do you think he continues in the position he's in to carry the leverage that he needs to get this deal done as the time clicks out? >> clearly, he's got leverage. but his leverage is only going to go so far. i know from talking to folks on capitol hill, there...
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they don't think the fiscal cliff is actually the marker of that. they think the debt ceiling is. that's made simply the ability to come to whatever deal they are going to eventually come to in the next couple of weeks as opposed to the next two or three months, a lot weaker. >> there are plenty of republicans concerned, particularly the economist side that these negotiations have huge ramifications for the american economy, as well, and global ramifications. the markets will respond badly if we go over the fiscal cliff. foreign investors will respond badly if america goes over the fiscal cliff at the end of this year. there's a sense, i'm hearing, increasing pessimism among republicans that say we can't afford to have these kinds of talks, even the stalling process doesn't look good for the country. >> there's other incentives that are bringing both republicans, especially the white house, to the table with respect to the fiscal cliff. we did reporting on this. >> your bosom buddy. >> yeah, but there's stimulus the white house wants as a result of the fiscal cliff deal. they don'
they don't think the fiscal cliff is actually the marker of that. they think the debt ceiling is. that's made simply the ability to come to whatever deal they are going to eventually come to in the next couple of weeks as opposed to the next two or three months, a lot weaker. >> there are plenty of republicans concerned, particularly the economist side that these negotiations have huge ramifications for the american economy, as well, and global ramifications. the markets will respond...
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earnings will be very much held captive by the fact that the uncertainty not only about the fiscal cliff but debt ceiling. >> very quickly, john, we're lose altitude in this market rapidly. what do you make of this, and what are you expecting to close here? >> just shows you how fragile our markets r.one comment out of washington can take profits off the table intraday. we'll hold on to our gains here. >> thanks, everybody. we appreciate it. where exactly do we stand in these fiscal cliff negotiations in the latest now from our john harwood, on your stomping ground. good to see you both. what do you make of this comment from harry redd, john, saying it's unlikely we get a deal by christmas? are they posturing? they don't want to put their spending cuts on the table but want the republicans to. is this posturing? >> i think it's posturing. jay carney gave a white house briefing saying i'm not going to reveal anything about the status of the talks in negotiation beyond the fact that they took place. the support trying to hammer republicans publicly. he's got the high side public opinion on
earnings will be very much held captive by the fact that the uncertainty not only about the fiscal cliff but debt ceiling. >> very quickly, john, we're lose altitude in this market rapidly. what do you make of this, and what are you expecting to close here? >> just shows you how fragile our markets r.one comment out of washington can take profits off the table intraday. we'll hold on to our gains here. >> thanks, everybody. we appreciate it. where exactly do we stand in these...
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republicans will demand there whether it's part of the deal in the fiscal cliff or to raise the debt limit. >> i'm glad you brought that up. in terms of spending, which clearly has to be cut, the president from the reports this week wants to raise the debt ceiling without asking anybody. did they comment on that? >> what he's saying is give me the unilateral right to raise the debt ceiling, which congress had has had to approve, then congress can disapprove with a two-thirds vote. that would mean i could increase it when he wants. it's very unlikely that -- almost impossible, republicans in congress would go along seeding there kind of authority with the president. they might agree to increase the debt limit for enough money to take him through the end of the term. but they're not just going to give him or future presidents the authority to increase the debt limit. that's part of the power congress has. >> we hope to see them working hard at this, time getting close to the end of the year. >> 23 days and counting. >> keep the stopwatch going. happy sunday. >> you bet, thank you. >> d
republicans will demand there whether it's part of the deal in the fiscal cliff or to raise the debt limit. >> i'm glad you brought that up. in terms of spending, which clearly has to be cut, the president from the reports this week wants to raise the debt ceiling without asking anybody. did they comment on that? >> what he's saying is give me the unilateral right to raise the debt ceiling, which congress had has had to approve, then congress can disapprove with a two-thirds vote....
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cliff talks. he was a negotiator back in the debt limit talks back in the summer of 2011 as well. this is one of the reasons why you might not see the president nominate the treasury secretary and name his economic team for some time maybe until even they get this fiscal cliff mess behind them because if they nominate jack lou that could tie him up for confirmation hearings and they don't want to risk that. >> rose: they have somebody say this to me when i was down in washington for the kennedy honors, if lyndon johnson was president he would have him what the whitehouse and he would lock the doors and say we're not going to left you out until you get a compromise. when the president hears that kind of talk, how does he respond? >> well i tried to push him on that in the interview. it's pretty striking that just the night before speaker boehner had been to the whitehouse for the annual christmas party. they didn't even exchange any pleasantries are, they didn't have a conversation. it shows you al
cliff talks. he was a negotiator back in the debt limit talks back in the summer of 2011 as well. this is one of the reasons why you might not see the president nominate the treasury secretary and name his economic team for some time maybe until even they get this fiscal cliff mess behind them because if they nominate jack lou that could tie him up for confirmation hearings and they don't want to risk that. >> rose: they have somebody say this to me when i was down in washington for the...
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they are looking for certainty on the fiscal cliff. certainty that debt reduction, there will be debt reduction, that entitlements will be brought under control. looking for certainty on taxe taxes. until this happens, there isn't going to be that certainly. i have to say that the republicans showed the political will. they stood up, to the conservative base. they put the re-knews on the table. what troubles me -- now that the ball is in the white house court, right? what troubles me is lack of political will on the white house, we haven't seen yet. particularly on spending and entitlement reform. voices in the deckic party saying that this was a mandate to walk away from debt reduction. that is troubling. >> charles lane do you see anything out there to give the business confidence to hire people again? >> well, there is just, i agree with nina. too many unknowns. we could add the situation the slow, steady, stagnation of europe to the mix. we could add uncertainty about where china is going to go. the troubling thing about the depart
they are looking for certainty on the fiscal cliff. certainty that debt reduction, there will be debt reduction, that entitlements will be brought under control. looking for certainty on taxe taxes. until this happens, there isn't going to be that certainly. i have to say that the republicans showed the political will. they stood up, to the conservative base. they put the re-knews on the table. what troubles me -- now that the ball is in the white house court, right? what troubles me is lack of...
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cliff, the fiscal deficit and the debt of the country, which are three topics that can be addressed now on the comprehensive and efficient fashion. >> in the fiscal cliff negotiation. so what should this mean? because i think i could interpret any given number to say, oh, that means we shouldn't touch taxes for the upper brackets because the economy still needs as much money as it can have in it. or i could argue, oh, this means that we need more stimulus to keep the jobs going, or i could look at the debt and say, oh, this means we need to cut spending. so what does it mean? so what would you, and what globally, what would mean the most for the u.s. to do in terms of the global economy? >> you know, what you said, you would qualify as an economist. on the one hand, on the other hand. the truth of the matter is that the best way out of this would be a balanced solution because you will always fine a school of thoughts that will say it's much better to cut spending, and you will find another school of thought that says it's much better town crea increase the r and cut taxes and there
cliff, the fiscal deficit and the debt of the country, which are three topics that can be addressed now on the comprehensive and efficient fashion. >> in the fiscal cliff negotiation. so what should this mean? because i think i could interpret any given number to say, oh, that means we shouldn't touch taxes for the upper brackets because the economy still needs as much money as it can have in it. or i could argue, oh, this means that we need more stimulus to keep the jobs going, or i...
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when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs. the white house has wasted another week. >> one sign of optimism is when he was pressed by a reporter about tax rates, he seemed to leave the door open about some flexibility of negotiating with the white house. vice president biden said while rates have to go up it's negotiable what exact rate it is. whether it goes all the way up to the top rate to 39.6 like the clinton days. it seems like there is wiggle room on both sides. that may be where we get a deal if these two sides get together next week, shep. >> shepard: u.s. officials say the syrian regime has begun preparing for use a nerve gas, one that's capable of killing thousands of people. the question is is the syrian president bashar assad ready to unleash a chemical weapon on his own people. the latest analysis coming up. don't expect to start using your cell phones on airplanes. at least not yet. it could soon be okay to use your ipad, kindle and laptop takeoff and landing at least if one government heavy hitter gets his way.
when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs. the white house has wasted another week. >> one sign of optimism is when he was pressed by a reporter about tax rates, he seemed to leave the door open about some flexibility of negotiating with the white house. vice president biden said while rates have to go up it's negotiable what exact rate it is. whether it goes all the way up to the top rate to 39.6 like the clinton days. it seems like there is...
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the debt ceiling if it is not part of any agreement, regarding the fiscal cliff to avert the fiscal cliff they will need to take up this question of raising the debt ceiling come likely early next year. republicans see that the question of raising the debt creeling is where they have leverage in this negotiation. the president and democrats do not want the debt ceiling to be kind of -- raising the debt ceiling to be part of this negotiation. they do not want this on their plate come early next year. it all comes down to leverage. democrats see that they have the leverage here because look at most recent polls today. if you look at this week, if you look at recent polls out this week, it shows that a majority of americans say if there is no deal, if we go over the fiscal cliff, they will blame republicans and not democrats or the president. you can be sure everyone is watching those polls. the debt ceiling if you can believe it, i know christine is rolling her eyes over there, the debt ceiling is becoming a part of this. >> that dialogue has been going on for quite some time now. at the en
the debt ceiling if it is not part of any agreement, regarding the fiscal cliff to avert the fiscal cliff they will need to take up this question of raising the debt ceiling come likely early next year. republicans see that the question of raising the debt creeling is where they have leverage in this negotiation. the president and democrats do not want the debt ceiling to be kind of -- raising the debt ceiling to be part of this negotiation. they do not want this on their plate come early next...
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fiscal cliff plan and the debt ceiling plan. what was he trying to do? >> guest: he was trying to embarrass the democrats. for instance, the president's plan on the debt ceiling was basically allowing the president to request whatever increases without the approval of congress and he thought that would embarrass democrats if they had to vote for it particularly endangered ones. >> sounded like leader reid took the bait. how the democrats respond? >> guest: there are a lot in politics going on here. we just talked about politics from mcconnell's side. democrats are aware that even if they allow -- even if they get the republicans to crumble on raising tax rates for upper bracket people there is still going to be a need next year, say march, to increase the debt limit and that was what john boehner used as is leverage a year-and-a-half ago in his talks with president obama so there's a belief on the part of democrats that they would like to get this idea in common circulation and also trying to manufacture some dialogue, the debt
fiscal cliff plan and the debt ceiling plan. what was he trying to do? >> guest: he was trying to embarrass the democrats. for instance, the president's plan on the debt ceiling was basically allowing the president to request whatever increases without the approval of congress and he thought that would embarrass democrats if they had to vote for it particularly endangered ones. >> sounded like leader reid took the bait. how the democrats respond? >> guest: there are a lot in...
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the fiscal cliff crisis and what going off it could actually mean for us. there seems to be little disagreement what this is all about. take a listen. >> when you're addicted to debt, 16 trillion bucks and you're in the hole, one trillion, and the markets will jump in and nobody will know when that is. the tippingpoint was always described by dick durbin, when will it happen? when it happens interest rates will go up, inflation will go up and guy that gets hurt the worst is the little guy. >> i think the overhyping of deficit, the deficit mania that is seized this town is kind of crazy. i mean i love alan simpson and erskine bowles, they're talking about inflation at a moment when people are paying us money to invest in our treasury bonds? jenna: charles payne, fox business network. he has his own list what we should worry about, charles, who is right here? >> reporter: i got to tell you the idea people are giving us money, america to our treasury bonds doesn't necessarily mean it is a vote of confidence in america. means the alternatives, traditional alter
the fiscal cliff crisis and what going off it could actually mean for us. there seems to be little disagreement what this is all about. take a listen. >> when you're addicted to debt, 16 trillion bucks and you're in the hole, one trillion, and the markets will jump in and nobody will know when that is. the tippingpoint was always described by dick durbin, when will it happen? when it happens interest rates will go up, inflation will go up and guy that gets hurt the worst is the little...
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because they see that if they don't want the debt ceiling to be part of the this fiscal cliff fight. they want to talk about it next year, and they see that as a way to be able to force the president to agree to more spending cuts and entitlement changes that he would otherwise not want to maybe agree to, soledad. but bottom line is, we're still watching them fight in public, which as you well know, the more they're fighting in public, the less they're talking behind the scenes. >> but maybe not. the fact they're not talking about anything they discuss on the phone call, i actually see that as a little ray of hope, right? like let's move it away from the cameras and get some serious work done. >> i will agree with you. >> hope springs eternal. >> i will agree with you. take that sliver of hope and i'll be back here telling you there's no progress. >> kate is an optimist and so am i. thanks, kate. appreciate it. zoraida sambolin has a look at some of the other news. >>> the bodies of two young cousins missing since the summer have been found by hunters in a wooded area in iowa. 10-yea
because they see that if they don't want the debt ceiling to be part of the this fiscal cliff fight. they want to talk about it next year, and they see that as a way to be able to force the president to agree to more spending cuts and entitlement changes that he would otherwise not want to maybe agree to, soledad. but bottom line is, we're still watching them fight in public, which as you well know, the more they're fighting in public, the less they're talking behind the scenes. >> but...
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now we're talking about using the fiscal cliff or the debt ceiling as the ultimate weapon, trying to get something from the president now or give something to the president now with a threat that the debt ceiling will be used as the weapon in a few weeks or months. and quite frankly, that's no way to run a country. we need to move beyond this stalemate and this gridlock and both parties need to come together. i think the president's trying his best and, quite frankly, i would say that speaker boehner is really trying here. but these are difficult circumstances and i believe -- i return to what i said earlier. we had an election. the president won. when it comes to these tax matters, the people of this country are supportive of the president's approach. >> i'm curious, chip, and you were on this teleconference and obviously those are people very involved and very interested but there's an awful lot of fatigue, election fatigue in this country and, frankly, the holidays -- holiday season is upon us, people are busy, kids are back in school, so son and so forth. how much is public press
now we're talking about using the fiscal cliff or the debt ceiling as the ultimate weapon, trying to get something from the president now or give something to the president now with a threat that the debt ceiling will be used as the weapon in a few weeks or months. and quite frankly, that's no way to run a country. we need to move beyond this stalemate and this gridlock and both parties need to come together. i think the president's trying his best and, quite frankly, i would say that speaker...
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the real attention will be on this massive, $60.3 trillion debt, this fiscal cliff. but, most importantly, this debt crisis next year. i'm not talking about what's going to happen in february or january. what i want to talk about is how do we solve this problem? how do we get the speaker? and the president actually opened up that back door. they're sitting there making back room deals. open up and let the american people see what's going on. i want to see what's going on. they won't tell either side what the deal-making is going on. i don't think that's the way to make policy. >> now, as you said, you and i may not agree. we've debated on this show, though you've always come on. are you saying that you believe that speaker boehner has a score card and is punishing you and three others for standing up and voting for what you believe to be right? >> that is apparently the case. we wrote a letter to the speaker and i think if you read the language of the letter, you walk through all of the washington and you see oh, yes, there was a score card and we were graded a certa
the real attention will be on this massive, $60.3 trillion debt, this fiscal cliff. but, most importantly, this debt crisis next year. i'm not talking about what's going to happen in february or january. what i want to talk about is how do we solve this problem? how do we get the speaker? and the president actually opened up that back door. they're sitting there making back room deals. open up and let the american people see what's going on. i want to see what's going on. they won't tell either...
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the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling, are they connected? >> the white house wants them to be connected. they actually think if neck get a deal decoupling the bush tax cuts, having entitlement reform in dealing with the debt ceiling that is getting a raise and not having to worry about it for another couple of years, that's what they want. house republicans have indicated that, look, they actually might want it to kick the can down the road, make a deal on taxes but kick it down the road where they have more leverage. president obama was asked about that earlier this week and said he doesn't want to play the debt ceiling game anymore. that's where republicans have more leverage than then do on other matters. >> all right. senior political editor mark murray, have a great weekend, sir. >> i want to bring in congressman peter welch from vermont. good to see you again. talked to you last weekend on msnbc. at that point you told me that you thought there was a 50/50 shot we'd go off the so-called fiscal cliff. today speaker boehner said talks we
the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling, are they connected? >> the white house wants them to be connected. they actually think if neck get a deal decoupling the bush tax cuts, having entitlement reform in dealing with the debt ceiling that is getting a raise and not having to worry about it for another couple of years, that's what they want. house republicans have indicated that, look, they actually might want it to kick the can down the road, make a deal on taxes but kick it down the road...
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>> let me add in here, judge, to your point that no congress has ever used the fiscal cliff. usual through debt ceiling as a bargaining point, which is what happened last year. this never dealt with. >> what would happen if the congress said no? the president would be forced to operate the federal government in money available to him. >> nobody said that to ronald reagan or the first george busher second george bush. >> democrats voted against raising the debt ceiling. >> but nobody has ever, ever stopped it and made it a point of then fiscal negotiation. only happened once. >> we have never been in treacherous, perilous fiscal circumstances as today. >> bret: top senate republican calling it quits was here on the set with us. the all-stars weigh in on that. surprising development next. initiated. neural speeds increasing to 4g lte. brain upgrading to a quad-core processor. predictive intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood coul
>> let me add in here, judge, to your point that no congress has ever used the fiscal cliff. usual through debt ceiling as a bargaining point, which is what happened last year. this never dealt with. >> what would happen if the congress said no? the president would be forced to operate the federal government in money available to him. >> nobody said that to ronald reagan or the first george busher second george bush. >> democrats voted against raising the debt ceiling....
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the real fiscal cliff is what happens if we don't strike a good deal, that actually deals with our debt and deficit. and that's when the credit markets, capital markets will really respond. i'm far more concerned about that than i am the deadline at the end of the year. >> a lot of discussion about boehner's caucus. not just in the house so much, but even in the senate. this is a quote from jeff sessions today. washington has become possessed by the idea that a small group of negotiators meeting in secret can solve the deep, painful and systemic problems plaguing this country. this is a siren song. do you think the process here at large is flawed? >> well, i don't know that you would get anything better if you had both bodies working on it in total. we are where we are. i think the best chance we have now are for the negotiators to strike a deal and put that on the floor of the house and the senate. >> of course, last time, speaker boehner did a deal with obama. it was actually rejected by the rest of the gop, and the whole thing fell apart. how significant is it as boehner looks to mak
the real fiscal cliff is what happens if we don't strike a good deal, that actually deals with our debt and deficit. and that's when the credit markets, capital markets will really respond. i'm far more concerned about that than i am the deadline at the end of the year. >> a lot of discussion about boehner's caucus. not just in the house so much, but even in the senate. this is a quote from jeff sessions today. washington has become possessed by the idea that a small group of negotiators...
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>> because if you think the fiscal cliff is fun, you'll love the debt ceiling. the economic havoc that is wreaked by the fiscal cliff is a very gradual thing, as you and have i discussed. going over it is a mistake. we shouldn't do it. but at least initially, if we can reverse it, it won't be so bad. if you default on the nation's debt on our treasury bills, that's not a fiscal slope. that's a cataclysmic economic event. not only are you stiffing creditors who believe they have invested in the safest debt in the universe, you're actually threatening to have to raise our interest rates through the roof in order to service our debt, which means absolutely a long-term recession. it's really quite a fatal step. >> "the wall street journal's" reporting that the white house is willing to do corporate tax reform in their new proposal. what do you think than in what do you think that might mean? >> i think it's a neat idea. the white house is actually articulated a fairly detailed corporate tax idea in a white paper that didn't get enough attention a few years ago. and
>> because if you think the fiscal cliff is fun, you'll love the debt ceiling. the economic havoc that is wreaked by the fiscal cliff is a very gradual thing, as you and have i discussed. going over it is a mistake. we shouldn't do it. but at least initially, if we can reverse it, it won't be so bad. if you default on the nation's debt on our treasury bills, that's not a fiscal slope. that's a cataclysmic economic event. not only are you stiffing creditors who believe they have invested...
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>> yes, do i. >> so no agreement on fiscal cliff, no agreement on debt ceiling, no agreement on this either? >> that's because they are obstructionists. they've turned the win into a partisan political instrument. they've turned the weather into a partisan political instrument. we have a solution to thisç 37e have introduced a discharge petition. we think that we shouldn't be holding the middle class hostage. everyone agrees the first $250,000 in income should receive a tax increase. i believe it should be higher in some areas like long island. but i'm not telling to tell somebody making $130,000 won't get a tax cut until somebody at $300,000 gets theirs. let's just vote today, tomorrow o a bill to give people a tax cut up to the $250,000, we offered a discharge petition. we need 40 republicans to sign that petition, get this out to a vote, put brakes on going over the cliff. >> congressman, thank you. >>> next, hillary can, but will she? stay with us. music is a universal language. but when i was in an accident... i was worried the health care system spoke a language all its own w
>> yes, do i. >> so no agreement on fiscal cliff, no agreement on debt ceiling, no agreement on this either? >> that's because they are obstructionists. they've turned the win into a partisan political instrument. they've turned the weather into a partisan political instrument. we have a solution to thisç 37e have introduced a discharge petition. we think that we shouldn't be holding the middle class hostage. everyone agrees the first $250,000 in income should receive a tax...
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cliff, the fiscal deficit, and the debt of the country, three topics that can be addressed now on a comprehensive and efficient fashion. >> so what should this mean? i think i could interpret any given number, to think oh, that means we should not touch taxes for any bracts, because it's as much money as we could have in it, or this means that we need more stimulus to keep the jobs going, or i could look at the debt and say this means we need to cut spending, so what does it mean? what would you, and what globally, what would mean the most for the u.s. to do? >> you know what you said? you would qualify as an economist. on the one hand, on the other hand -- the truth of the matter is that the best way out of this would be a balanced solution. you will always find a school of thought that will say it'sment better to cut spendings. another that will say it's better to increase the revenue and raise taxes. and another group that says we have to cut deficits now and in the long run. we have seen studies of all sorts, and they will not demonstrate the absolute truth. my view, personally,
cliff, the fiscal deficit, and the debt of the country, three topics that can be addressed now on a comprehensive and efficient fashion. >> so what should this mean? i think i could interpret any given number, to think oh, that means we should not touch taxes for any bracts, because it's as much money as we could have in it, or this means that we need more stimulus to keep the jobs going, or i could look at the debt and say this means we need to cut spending, so what does it mean? what...